Passive Income Affiliate Sites vs. Active Income Affiliate Sites: What’s the Difference?

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Have you ever wondered whether passive income affiliate sites are actually possible, or if all sites require active effort? If so, you’re in for a treat because this article shares an interview I did with a niche site owner whose been in the industry for 10+ years!

I love interviewing successful affiliate marketers and identifying what makes some succeed while others struggle.

Roderick Brenes, an affiliate marketer who has been in the business for 10+ years has run several profitable blogs that he monetized with affiliate marketing.

In the interview below, he dives into what made his blogs successful, what to watch out for, and whether or not passive income affiliate marketing is a myth or a reality.

Contents

Video Transcript

I’ve included the video transcript for those of you who don’t have the time to watch the entire video. I’ve editted the transcript to improve the grammar and spelling since this is the written format.

Video Intro

0:00:01.340,0:00:06.000
Hi. I’m Tiffany Domena. Welcome to my channel. If you’re new here, my website is howtoentrepreneurs.org and my mission
is to help you grow a business: from idea to full time income, and from full time to enterprise. Today, I’m really excited because I have Nathaniel Brenes here from onemorecupof-coffee.com

0:00:21.330,0:00:26.490
He’ll be talking with me about passive income affiliate marketing versus active income affiliate marketing. This is a topic that I’m personally really interested in and I know a lot of other people who get into affiliate marketing are interested in as well so
if you’ve ever wondered how to get into passive income affiliate marketing or if it’s possible or if all sites start out active and how it goes or what the mix-up is then this interview will be really exciting for you because that’s exactly what we’ll be talking about.

Of course we’ll first be talking about a little bit about anything and so you can get to know him but after we get into that then we’ll be talking all about passive income versus active income affiliate marketing. First, I want to start by having Roderick introduce himself. What is a little background on you? How did you start with onemorecupof-coffee? What do you want people to know about you?

Background on Roderick (aka. Nathaniell)

Well I started this site back in 2010…wait, no, 2012, 2010 was when I started
affiliate marketing I was living in
China and I realize I was making like

0:01:43.500,0:01:50.340
okay money for Chinese salary but I kind
of realized that if I ever wanted to

0:01:50.340,0:01:54.750
travel outside of the country or outside
of Southeast Asia that it was very

0:01:54.750,0:01:58.829
difficult to save money for traveling
and I was really into traveling at the

What Sparked His Interest in Online Business

0:01:58.829,0:02:06.149
time so I thought well why don’t I start
some sort of online business because US

0:02:06.149,0:02:12.060
dollars go a lot further in China and
that area so you know even if I could

0:02:12.060,0:02:16.570
get something like $1,000
online which doesn’t sound like a lot in

0:02:16.570,0:02:21.940
the US you know that’s basically what I
was making already there so I could you

0:02:21.940,0:02:26.590
know double my income in China with very
little effort you know I had no idea

0:02:26.590,0:02:31.120
what I would be doing but you know I
thought oh maybe I’ll do some sort of

What he Thought He’d Be Doing

0:02:31.120,0:02:37.030
exporting or some sort of you know and
this is before ecommerce was really

0:02:37.030,0:02:42.520
blown up I just had no I didn’t even
know what affiliate marketing was it

How Long it Took Him to Figure out His Business Concept

0:02:42.520,0:02:49.780
took me about two years to figure things
out and then what was that what do you

0:02:49.780,0:02:54.400
mean what did you have to figure out
I just mean with wealthy affiliate

0:02:54.400,0:03:01.510
taking the courses and building various
sites I used to have so many sites I

0:03:01.510,0:03:09.450
mean that was when like exact match
domains were popular so I would just buy

0:03:09.450,0:03:13.510
basically I had one niche and I mean I
went through a bunch of different niches

Niches he Tried Before

0:03:13.510,0:03:22.420


1. Horse Care

like I had a horse care niche

2. Ankle Rehab

And then I had a website about ankle rehab and then

0:03:22.420,0:03:26.560
I had a website about yeah there’s this
product on Clickbank we’re supposed to

0:03:26.560,0:03:30.070
teach you how to like recover from
sprained ankle

3. Asian Flush

0:03:30.070,0:03:37.450
I had one website which is really good
so there’s this thing called Asian flush

0:03:37.450,0:03:43.150
which is a lot of a lot of Asians
they’re missing a specific enzyme that

0:03:43.150,0:03:47.260
helps them digest alcohol that’s why
there’s a stereotype that if you’re

0:03:47.260,0:03:52.090
Asian and you drink your face turns red
it’s real thing oh and I mean I was in

0:03:52.090,0:03:55.930
China so I saw it all over the place and
then there so there’s this product on

0:03:55.930,0:04:01.150
Clickbank which was supposed to teach
you how to overcome that I’ve never

0:04:01.150,0:04:07.709
heard of that before I mean it’s a legit
thing it’s an enzyme they’ve isolated

0:04:07.709,0:04:13.810
and I made some money off of that but
these were terrible websites eventually

4. VPNs

0:04:13.810,0:04:18.519
I got into VPN stuff and then that took
off but yeah I would have like 60

0:04:18.519,0:04:25.270
domains on these various VPN keywords
and then

He Got Penalized for Black Hat SEO Tactics

0:04:25.270,0:04:27.970
I would just you know get a bunch of backlinks and spin a bunch of
content

0:04:27.970,0:04:31.990
At that time, spinning content was really
popular and of course none of those are

0:04:31.990,0:04:34.630
around now
I had like 60 different domains at one

0:04:34.630,0:04:41.310
time going with all the same content all
spun and they’re all trash now of course

0:04:41.310,0:04:49.630
so that’s the interesting bio

Roderick and Other Business Types

Tiffany: So, did
you start out with affiliate marketing?

0:04:49.630,0:04:55.570
Or, did you try other online business
types and then stumble upon Wealthy

0:04:55.570,0:05:00.790
Affiliate? How did it go?

Roderick: Uh, well I got
roped into a couple different pyramid

0:05:00.790,0:05:05.980
schemes firs.t you know you search how to
make money online and you get into the

0:05:05.980,0:05:12.250
get-rich-quick stuff I started I think
the first one I really really remember

0:05:12.250,0:05:16.110
was this thing called People String and

0:05:16.170,0:05:22.300
it was it’s this concept you hear every
couple of years ago surface oh the

0:05:22.300,0:05:27.940
social media Giants are making money off
of our hard work sharing articles online

0:05:27.940,0:05:32.530
you know we need to redistribute the
income to the people who are using the

0:05:32.530,0:05:37.750
sides and this is going to be the hot
new social thing so of course I joined

0:05:37.750,0:05:41.290
and then there was various upsells and
then they had me send emails to my

0:05:41.290,0:05:49.300
friends and everyone. None of my friends and family members liked it.

0:05:49.300,0:05:53.890
I lost money on that. I only put maybe a hundred
bucks into it. I was skeptical and thank God

0:05:53.890,0:06:00.550
that I didn’t lose too much money but
it’s just a waste of time and then I

Roderick Finds Wealthy Affiliate

0:06:00.550,0:06:04.000
don’t really know that was I thinking. I
found Wealthy Affiliate through an

0:06:04.000,0:06:11.770
e-zine article.
Remember those?

Tiffany: Yeah

He Gets Started with Affiliate Marketing

Roderick: and you know then

0:06:11.770,0:06:18.820
that was it that’s when I started doing
the various niche websites and Clickbank

0:06:18.820,0:06:26.320
products

Tiffany: At that point were they as established as they are now?

A Little Background on Wealthy Affiliate in 2010

0:06:26.320,0:06:30.790
Were they just a networking community? Did you join when they were like a

0:06:30.790,0:06:38.200
keyword company? Or, what was it like when
you joined? Was it a forum?

Roderick: Yeah it was

0:06:38.200,0:06:46.180
the forum stage so okay there was still
you know I don’t really 100% remember

0:06:46.180,0:06:49.810
what the training was I know that they
weren’t using WordPress sites at the

0:06:49.810,0:06:54.130
time they were doing their own thing and
then you could have like five WordPress

0:06:54.130,0:06:58.510
sites and you could build as many and
the other type of sites and I could

0:06:58.510,0:07:02.770
never figure out the website builder so
I ended up just doing WordPress just

0:07:02.770,0:07:07.690
because I I couldn’t figure it out and
eventually they moved to all WordPress

0:07:07.690,0:07:14.800
which was good good news I think yeah

Tiffany: okay that’s interesting so when you

0:07:14.800,0:07:18.820
joined you basically were joined up for
the networking component because it was

0:07:18.820,0:07:27.550
a pretty engaged for him.

I know I joined because I mean when I joined I

0:07:27.550,0:07:29.889
didn’t have any affiliate sites. They’re the ones who got me into

0:07:29.889,0:07:34.419
affiliate marketing. Before that,
it had some training

0:07:34.419,0:07:39.690
that was fairly good

Tiffany: How did that
integrate with the forum?

0:07:39.690,0:07:45.220
Nathaniell: The forum was like a separate site I
think like you’d click a link and it

0:07:45.220,0:07:49.930
would open the forum if I remember
correctly but they did they did have

0:07:49.930,0:07:53.530
training not as much as they do now and
there was no live chat, there was no

0:07:53.530,0:07:59.320
webinars, but I mean it was a similar
training structure that they had you

0:07:59.320,0:08:04.090
know various steps you’d go through and
different levels and don’t remember

0:08:04.090,0:08:07.810
exactly how it was structured at that
time but it I mean the the general

0:08:07.810,0:08:11.560
overview of what they were teaching was
pretty similar

Scams and Convolution in Affiliate Marketing

0:08:11.560,0:08:18.190
Tiffany: Since you came from these scams and
pyramid schemes and stuff like that did

0:08:18.190,0:08:24.580
you come into affiliate marketing
believing that this is gonna work? Or did

0:08:24.580,0:08:31.570
you kind of think like it’s not gonna
work or where were you?

Roderick: Yeah I

0:08:31.570,0:08:36.310
had no idea what was gonna happen I mean
that’s why I ended up using Nathaniel

0:08:36.310,0:08:39.360
instead of my first name which is
Roderick

0:08:39.360,0:08:45.940
security through obscurity if I you know
let’s say I end up promoting some you

0:08:45.940,0:08:49.390
know another people’s string or
something at least it won’t be attached

0:08:49.390,0:08:52.650
to my real name

0:08:52.650,0:08:56.790
Tiffany: I didn’t even know that wasn’t your real
name. That’s funny

Roderick: Yeah

0:08:56.790,0:09:02.450
I’m slowly trying to transition just
because it’s just a pain with all this

0:09:02.450,0:09:07.020
you know I have people who call me
Roderick and people call me Rick and

0:09:07.020,0:09:15.080
Nathaniel and but the site’s all branded
Nathaniel so yeah you know whatever yeah

0:09:15.080,0:09:22.380
yeah that’s the story behind that so you
protect yourself yeah cuz I don’t know

0:09:22.380,0:09:26.970
and I mean I knew when you put stuff
online everyone can see it so yeah I

0:09:26.970,0:09:30.680
don’t know if I want to be because it’s
just the first when I send out those

0:09:30.680,0:09:36.990
emails for this first scams I tried to
join I was like yeah join me it’s fine

0:09:36.990,0:09:41.550
make money
everyone was so skeptical and so I

0:09:41.550,0:09:45.089
got a few mean emails from like
acquaintances who I didn’t know that

0:09:45.089,0:09:48.380
well they’re like why you sending me to
crap? Why are you trying to steal my money?

0:09:48.380,0:09:54.870
So it was not a very positive response
from pretty much everyone I knew from

0:09:54.870,0:09:59.850
the beginning.

Did His Family Support His Business Startup? No.

Tiffany: Yeah fair enough. So you started

0:09:59.850,0:10:07.140
entrepreneurship kind of with maybe not
the most support because you you may

0:10:07.140,0:10:13.860
have burned some bridges doing that?

Roderick: I mean yeah burning bridges sounds a

0:10:13.860,0:10:22.200
little extreme but yeah I mean I mean
okay no one was supportive as is a

0:10:22.200,0:10:28.350
pretty good assessment of that.

Tiffany: Were you you married? Did you

0:10:28.350,0:10:34.790
have other responsibilities or things
that you were balancing at the time?

0:10:34.790,0:10:41.100
Roderick: I was lucky that the job that I had in
China I only had two lessons a day

0:10:41.100,0:10:46.290
during the week so I pretty much had
free time from you know 8 o’clock to 5

0:10:46.290,0:10:52.290
o’clock. I could cool down and then I could had
full full class loads on the on the

0:10:52.290,0:10:58.410
weekends because it’s like a
supplementary English school and so from

0:10:58.410,0:11:03.329
Were you spent a lot of time on the

0:11:03.329,0:11:06.140
business starting out?

He Starts a Brick and Mortar Business

0:11:06.140,0:11:13.820
At that time I was trying to
start a cafe in China

0:11:13.820,0:11:17.510
Rules in China are super relaxed and if
you have the right connections you can

0:11:17.510,0:11:21.350
do anything and so you get this or at
least I got this kind of entrepreneur

0:11:21.350,0:11:28.280
bug because you know if you you know the
right people then you know I was living

0:11:28.280,0:11:33.170
in a small town and I was one
of ten non-Chinese people in the town

0:11:33.170,0:11:38.960
and probably one of two white people so
you get to know the lot of the

0:11:38.960,0:11:41.990
government people and business people
real quick cuz everyone wants to meet

0:11:41.990,0:11:47.030
you and so people would put this you
know bug in my ear like “oh we need to do

0:11:47.030,0:11:51.050
Export Import”, “you know we need to export
tea out of China”, and “we need to import

0:11:51.050,0:11:57.830
iPhones from the US”, and then I thought
“well you know a cafe sounds pretty easy”

0:11:57.830,0:12:02.530
“you know I can make coffee and

0:12:02.770,0:12:07.910
sandwiches”. I know it sounds weird saying
now but sandwiches are big, or they were a big

0:12:07.910,0:12:11.440
deal where I was living where it’s like
“oh this is American food”.

0:12:11.440,0:12:16.850
They say, “American sandwiches are
better than Chinese sandwiches” and so we

0:12:16.850,0:12:22.400
started that. Me and this guy started
this coffee and sandwiches cafe and I

0:12:22.400,0:12:29.420
was running that out of my apartment and
so we were delivering

0:12:29.420,0:12:34.460
It was a high-stress time I think I lost like

0:12:34.460,0:12:43.780
25-30 pounds because I lived on a seventh
floor and there was no elevator and

0:12:43.780,0:12:49.130
neither of us had run a business before
so we’re waking up at like five o’clock

0:12:49.130,0:12:58.700
in the morning to deliver coffee to
students in nearby high schools and then

0:12:58.700,0:13:01.640
we were doing that and then we were
preparing for lunch and we were

0:13:01.640,0:13:08.930
delivering lunch you know all through
11:00 to 2:00 making delivering and then

0:13:08.930,0:13:14.300
you know ordering supplies and all that
stuff and then in the evening we opened

0:13:14.300,0:13:19.280
up the cafe for people to actually come
into my house and drink coffee so we had

0:13:19.280,0:13:24.590
all the
like you know chairs and you know

0:13:24.590,0:13:28.520
various things whatever you find in a
cafe in my apartment and I was sort of

0:13:28.520,0:13:37.510
quarantined to the bedroom. It
was wild you know eventually yeah so I

0:13:37.510,0:13:43.310
was doing maybe like an hour a day on
the website stuff and nothing was really

0:13:43.310,0:13:50.570
working and then eventually you know we
were trying to go official and get a

0:13:50.570,0:13:55.490
spot and you know bribe the right people
to get the whatever licenses we need and

The Brick and Mortar Didn’t Work Out

0:13:55.490,0:14:02.600
yeah fell through with financing is I
would put it generally so we didn’t have

0:14:02.600,0:14:06.230
enough money to do what we wanted to do
and then the business partnership fell

He Goes Back to Work on His Online Business

0:14:06.230,0:14:12.200
apart so then I fell back on the website
stuff about that time it had been like

0:14:12.200,0:14:18.230
maybe six months since I started that
first VPN website and so I started to

His First Website Started to Take Off

0:14:18.230,0:14:22.340
see couple sales and then a couple sales a month and then a

0:14:22.340,0:14:25.160
couple sales a week and then it started
doing pretty good after that

0:14:25.160,0:14:29.930
so the vpn website was the first one
that you started to earn a bunch

0:14:29.930,0:14:34.700
At the same
time the VPN one was the one that took

0:14:34.700,0:14:45.560
off okay and

Obstacles that Prevented his Business from Growing Faster

Tiffany: That’s so funny so you were
starting out spinning about an hour a

0:14:45.560,0:14:53.360
day on the web sites and why why wasn’t
it taking off?

1. Google Sandbox

Roderick: It was just typical sandbox stuff

2. Still Learning the Skills

0:14:53.360,0:15:00.080
I think okay it was also I didn’t know
what I was doing so writing a lot

3. Writing Articles too Short and too Promotional

0:15:00.080,0:15:05.930
shorter articles everything was a lot
more promotional you know I wasn’t

0:15:05.930,0:15:12.740
trying to inform people I was just
trying to rank for keywords and get my

0:15:12.740,0:15:17.960
affiliate links in there yeah and
looking back I mean those first sales I

0:15:17.960,0:15:21.980
made were just random you know it’s just
random clicks people getting lost on

0:15:21.980,0:15:25.970
page two or three of Google and and
accidentally clicking my link and

0:15:25.970,0:15:30.950
accidentally ordering something several
days later but it was enough motivation

0:15:30.950,0:15:35.930
to keep me interested you know since it
obviously developed a lot more and I’m

Things that Contributed to More Success

0:15:35.930,0:15:42.440

1. Being intentional about writing Helpful Content

more focused on writing helpful content
and not just making sales and yeah doing

2. Creating a Unique Selling Proposition (USP)

0:15:42.440,0:15:49.160
a unique unique selling proposition yeah
being a little different and yeah I have

3. Being more Strategic

0:15:49.160,0:15:56.180
more of a strategy now yeah back then it
was just all about making sales I think

0:15:56.180,0:16:01.760
a lot of people start out like that

Tiffany: It’s funny that you mentioned even

0:16:06.770,0:16:11.030
It’s even more competition nowadays because the knowledge I
think is is growing. More people are

0:16:11.030,0:16:19.370
understanding how to use the Internet
and so would you say that maybe the same

0:16:19.370,0:16:24.680
strategy that you used at that time would still work today?

What’s Roderick say About having Numerous Sites?

0:16:30.890,0:16:36.920
strategy deeming you started out with a
bunch of sites and you were trying to

0:16:36.920,0:16:43.910
see which one worked and yeah do you
think that’s a good idea today or it’s

0:16:43.910,0:16:49.490
hard to say
I see advantages to both I mean because

0:16:49.490,0:16:55.790
so like let’s say I’m working on five
websites at one time if I make a mistake

0:16:55.790,0:17:01.730
on one I make a mistake across all five
so right what I would end up doing like

0:17:01.730,0:17:08.030
I was using copyrighted images for
example and I didn’t understand that

0:17:08.030,0:17:15.350
that was an issue at the time and then
you know I had if I got an email or

0:17:15.350,0:17:19.340
something but or I read something but
somehow I got spooked oh my god I can’t

0:17:19.340,0:17:23.420
use copyrighted images anymore so then I
had to go through and replace all the

0:17:23.420,0:17:29.000
images for all my website so every
single a mistake like that you’d have to

0:17:29.000,0:17:37.280
redo you know across everything but you
know really supercharged my WordPress

0:17:37.280,0:17:42.380
experience so yeah yeah if you do things
once like I used to have this problem

0:17:42.380,0:17:47.190
with FTP every time I’d only have to log
in at DV every once

0:17:47.190,0:17:51.330
three months or once every six months I
forget it and it would be I have to

0:17:51.330,0:17:56.190
really watch the YouTube videos redo
everything relearn it every time where

0:17:56.190,0:18:00.660
if you have to correct that mistake five
times in a row then you learn it faster

0:18:00.660,0:18:08.550
yeah so I did learn a lot faster that
way and I think it’s hard for people if

0:18:08.550,0:18:12.720
you’re brand new to affiliate marketing
and you’re brand new to building

0:18:12.720,0:18:19.080
websites it’s hard to see the big
picture right away you know you can look

0:18:19.080,0:18:22.110
at something like if you’re in the
finance niche and you look at something

0:18:22.110,0:18:31.680
like nerd wallet or you know these big
blogs about credit card you look at that

0:18:31.680,0:18:38.250
you’re like how how do I make something
like that it seems impossible or you

0:18:38.250,0:18:41.580
know you just don’t know anything about
branding you know like I used to think

Branding May Change as You Mature

0:18:41.580,0:18:49.380
it was like sometimes you’ll run into
these guys and the make money online

0:18:49.380,0:18:55.380
niche and they’re like the cool hardcore
guy they’re like you know if you I don’t

0:18:55.380,0:18:59.100
care what you think I’m a rich
millionaire and I’m gonna show you how

0:18:59.100,0:19:07.410
to be a rich asshole just was that
richer for a while and I used to think

0:19:07.410,0:19:14.490
that was cool but now I look and it’s
kind of cringy because I don’t know it’s

0:19:14.490,0:19:18.810
just not you know so I may have made a
branding decision like that early on and

0:19:18.810,0:19:21.270
now looking back I think that would have
been a mistake

0:19:21.270,0:19:26.520
so my point with that is you know if
you’re trying to develop this huge giant

0:19:26.520,0:19:31.230
you know six-figure per month website
but you’ve never built an affiliate site

0:19:31.230,0:19:35.160
before I think it’s hard to wrap your
head around the big picture stuff like

Tinkering Around Can Give you Practice

0:19:35.160,0:19:39.720
that so tinkering around with these
little sites you know even though they

0:19:39.720,0:19:43.830
may have less potential long term it’s a
good learning experience

0:19:43.830,0:19:50.520
yeah at the same time it’s frustrating
if you know you spend two years trying

0:19:50.520,0:19:54.330
to develop this you know little site
about whatever hobby you have and then

0:19:54.330,0:19:58.350
two years down the road you put all your
time money into this and it’s making two

0:19:58.350,0:19:59.879
grand a month and you don’t know where
to

0:19:59.879,0:20:04.739
next now you got to start all over from
the beginning and you know try to

0:20:04.739,0:20:08.779
develop a bigger site so I don’t know
this advantages in disappear

0:20:08.779,0:20:16.109
yeah I see what you mean so how long
have you been

0:20:16.109,0:20:21.419
you now you’ve been an affiliate
marketing uses since 2010 yeah so that’s

0:20:21.419,0:20:28.379
ten years okay so you really have a lot
of knowledge in the in the field you’ve

Can Affiliate Marketing Work as an Investment Like Real Estate? Roderick’s Opinion…

0:20:28.379,0:20:35.969
Tiffany: You’ve seen a lot of trends come and go, right?
Roderick: yeah

Tiffany: So one trend is people who want to

0:20:35.969,0:20:44.569
get into affiliate marketing like they
would real estate people who maybe they

0:20:44.569,0:20:49.979
want to add something into their
portfolio their financial portfolio that

0:20:49.979,0:20:57.419
can be passive and so do you think that
there are certain niches where that’s

0:20:57.419,0:21:01.739
possible and certain niches where that’s
not possible or what do you think about

0:21:01.739,0:21:10.159
that I think to treat it like real
estate

Roderick: I don’t think it’s possible

0:21:10.159,0:21:21.869
right now, but it depends on what
your skill level is with computers and

0:21:21.869,0:21:27.599
websites in general. Like if let’s say I have a couple

0:21:27.599,0:21:32.459
hundred thousand dollars in cash and I
want to get some kind of return on that

0:21:32.459,0:21:39.119
I can buy a house and then just get a
property manager to manage the property

0:21:39.119,0:21:42.859
and they’ll take care of everything and
I don’t have to have any sort of input

0:21:42.859,0:21:50.609
okay in that so you know that would be
truly passive income because you’re not

0:21:50.609,0:21:55.619
doing anything other than tax time
collecting your whatever documentation

0:21:55.619,0:22:00.539
you need and giving it to your tax guy. I don’t think there’s a

0:22:00.539,0:22:10.229
property manager type position for
affiliate sites right now. That may be on

0:22:10.229,0:22:16.070
the way there’s like there’s various
things that you can do where you like

0:22:16.070,0:22:22.370
pool your money with other investors and
you invest in websites yeah I haven’t

0:22:22.370,0:22:26.000
looked into that personally and I know
they just had that was an income shops

0:22:26.000,0:22:32.929
that have you heard about that no I
think it was income shops where they

0:22:32.929,0:22:36.350
basically did this thing where they had
investors pull their money to buy niche

0:22:36.350,0:22:41.210
sites and they were promised 15% return
or X amount of return over a period of

0:22:41.210,0:22:45.590
time and then Google had an update and
all the sites crashed and then they were

0:22:45.590,0:22:50.389
reliant on new investors to put money in
in order to pay the old investor. It

0:22:50.389,0:22:57.980
turned to a Ponzi scheme so there has been people who come out with things like that but they’re

0:22:57.980,0:23:02.809
like brand new within the last year or
two so it’s unclear what direction

0:23:02.809,0:23:08.840
that’s going but so like if you were to
take that same couple hundred thousand

0:23:08.840,0:23:13.820
dollars and put that into an affiliate
site if you don’t have the knowledge on

0:23:13.820,0:23:19.580
how to run that affiliate site it’s a
huge risk on what’s gonna happen to that

0:23:19.580,0:23:23.720
money cuz I mean aside from Google
updates you could have competition come

0:23:23.720,0:23:27.500
in now rank you you could have affiliate
programs that stopped running you could

0:23:27.500,0:23:32.779
have Commission’s change you could have
companies stopped selling certain

0:23:32.779,0:23:38.899
products. You have to have knowledge on how to run that
website you can’t just leave it

0:23:38.899,0:23:43.039
there and expect infinite returns until
the rest of the time you know. Real

0:23:43.039,0:23:46.970
estate is different. You buy the house and its
still gonna be there then needs repairs

0:23:46.970,0:23:53.510
someone’s gonna take care of it so you
would at least have to know you know if

0:23:53.510,0:23:57.649
you have zero experience and your
website goes down who you’re gonna call.

0:23:57.649,0:24:01.340
If you don’t know what hosting is,
you don’t know how to contact the host

0:24:01.340,0:24:07.370
to have them figure that out, if you don’t know that your plugins

0:24:07.370,0:24:11.210
need to be updated, you know how you’re
gonna update your plugins are you even

0:24:11.210,0:24:14.840
gonna hire the right person to do the
job that needs to be done if you don’t

0:24:14.840,0:24:22.580
know what needs to be done right so yeah
so I would say in order for affiliate

0:24:22.580,0:24:27.250
sites to be truly passive income you
would need that

0:24:27.250,0:24:34.659
a manager type position to be involved

Is Affiliate Marketing Passive Once You Hire Writers?

0:24:34.659,0:24:38.590
Tiffany: People think that once they get to
the point where they hire writers that

0:24:38.590,0:24:45.280
it becomes passive but you see companies
like Huffington Post or entrepreneur.com

0:24:45.280,0:24:52.150
and they have lots of writers and I
it doesn’t turn passive at that point do

0:24:52.150,0:24:55.539
you agree?
Roderick: Yeah. You still have to oversee the writers.

0:24:55.539,0:25:01.870
You could hire a
manager to manage your writers but if

0:25:01.870,0:25:05.500
you’re dealing with the writers directly
you got a check to make sure information

0:25:05.500,0:25:11.620
their publishing is accurate
and you know the only grammar yeah you

0:25:11.620,0:25:16.419
know even if the grammar spot-on
you know maybe it’s not structured in a

0:25:16.419,0:25:22.179
way that’s good for getting affiliate
clicks or you know a lot of writers they

0:25:22.179,0:25:25.900
don’t understand the basics of SEO so
you have to give them very specific

0:25:25.900,0:25:29.440
instructions and a lot of times people
you know they get relaxed and then they

0:25:29.440,0:25:34.240
forget you know I’ve and I’ve been
through that as well where I used to

0:25:34.240,0:25:38.309
hire people and I just say okay just
publish it to the side huh

0:25:38.309,0:25:43.150
you know people people are people and
they get relaxed in their job and they

0:25:43.150,0:25:49.659
sort of cheat here there and and people
you know on the worst side you have

0:25:49.659,0:25:54.340
people copying and spinning content and
then you know on just the you know

Roderick’s Experience with Hiring Bad Writers

0:25:54.340,0:26:00.280
average mistakes everyone makes I’ve had
time so I’ve had to go back and correct

0:26:00.280,0:26:03.789
hundreds of articles just because I
wasn’t paying attention or delete

0:26:03.789,0:26:09.909
hundreds of articles because you know I
was busy and I said okay I wanted to

0:26:09.909,0:26:13.690
order this article package here’s 200
articles and I didn’t check anything

0:26:13.690,0:26:17.530
just because I assumed they were doing
their job and then I went through and

0:26:17.530,0:26:25.929
none of them were usable and I it was my
fault so you know there’s $500 down the

0:26:25.929,0:26:28.080
drain just because I wasn’t paying
attention

0:26:28.080,0:26:34.480
Tiffany: yeah and I can see that happening and
that’s one of the reasons why I wanted

0:26:34.480,0:26:40.120
to talk to you about it because I know
you’ve had experience with approaching

0:26:40.120,0:26:43.990
affiliate
Marketing in that way and trying

0:26:43.990,0:26:51.340
different models to make it more passive
so I thought it was interesting to talk

0:26:51.340,0:26:58.899
talk to you about your experience so if
like you’re saying that it will be

0:26:58.899,0:27:02.230
required that they have to have the
knowledge of how to run it what the

0:27:02.230,0:27:10.179
maintenance is in order to like delegate
and scale it properly. Do you think

Can Businesses of Any Type be Passive in the Startup Phase?

0:27:10.179,0:27:15.730
that it’s just not appropriate to expect
that the passive components at the

0:27:15.730,0:27:23.649
startup phase? Or, do you think that it’s
just never really passive?

0:27:23.649,0:27:26.619
Roderick: I mean there’s no way it could be
passive in the start when you’re

0:27:26.619,0:27:29.649
starting a site or at least I haven’t
figured it out yet

0:27:29.649,0:27:33.879
I mean I’m still trying just started a
new website here and I literally don’t

0:27:33.879,0:27:39.759
have the time to work on it so we’re
gonna see three years ago I started the

0:27:39.759,0:27:48.070
site which is doing good now but I did
put in a lot of my own work into the

0:27:48.070,0:27:54.909
site mm-hmm so it wasn’t truly passive
to start we’re gonna see how that goes

0:27:54.909,0:28:00.450
in the next couple years with having I’m
gonna try to do less on the site now

0:28:00.450,0:28:08.230
mm-hmm and we’ll see how that goes I
mean my my idea is that you know you

0:28:08.230,0:28:15.100
should be able to hire out these
positions yeah you know get a good

0:28:15.100,0:28:22.299
writer that you like you can you know
test them for a couple months monitor

0:28:22.299,0:28:27.429
what they’re doing and once they get you
know the idea of what you’re trying to

0:28:27.429,0:28:31.629
do then you can sort of and then a
keyword list but then you start to have

0:28:31.629,0:28:36.850
the keywords that you need so you know
you could maybe teach them how to do

0:28:36.850,0:28:41.139
keyword research or maybe hire someone
to do keyword research and you know

0:28:41.139,0:28:45.820
deliver 20 keywords a week or something
like that and you find someone who can

0:28:45.820,0:28:49.269
do that and people have different
opinions on what’s a good keyword and

0:28:49.269,0:28:54.039
what’s not so you have to decide what
type of content you’re you’re gonna

0:28:54.039,0:28:56.409
produce
there’s like something obvious would be

0:28:56.409,0:29:00.549
like oh I’m just gonna hire someone to
review every single type of electric

0:29:00.549,0:29:07.389
shaver there is as well all right how is
that gonna look you know is there

0:29:07.389,0:29:10.960
because I’ve run into this problem when
you try to review everything in a niche

0:29:10.960,0:29:15.730
yeah while everything is kind of similar
like you know is there a big difference

0:29:15.730,0:29:23.139
between you know Gillette X 75 and
Gillette X 76

0:29:23.139,0:29:29.980
not really and so Google’s gonna see
that in my opinion Google’s gonna see

0:29:29.980,0:29:34.659
that that content is very similar so
although you’ll have a lot of articles

0:29:34.659,0:29:39.460
on your site I think it’s unlikely that
those are gonna rain so I still quite

0:29:39.460,0:29:45.100
haven’t quite figured out how how to
manage everything on a higher level you

0:29:45.100,0:29:49.330
know when I am involved and I’m picking
out the keywords and editing articles

0:29:49.330,0:29:54.100
and stuff like that and it it’s working
out okay so far but I haven’t removed

0:29:54.100,0:30:03.549
myself from the process yes yeah

Tiffany’s Advice for Scaling a Business into a Passive Model

Tiffany: From
what I’ve seen not just with affiliate

0:30:03.549,0:30:10.179
marketing but with other business types
and it’s like you have to keep moving

0:30:10.179,0:30:17.559
back like you pretty much you figure out
what job you have you make a job for

0:30:17.559,0:30:23.259
yourself and then you document what that
job requires and then you replace

0:30:23.259,0:30:28.149
yourself and keep replacing yourself
until the business is more independent

0:30:28.149,0:30:33.970
but it’s from from what I’ve seen it
takes some time to get that to get a

0:30:33.970,0:30:42.279
business to be passive because it’s kind
of like it’s kind of like raising kids

0:30:42.279,0:30:47.169
you have to train the business to be
independent and there’s like lots of

0:30:47.169,0:30:52.389
hiccups along the way because maybe you
do hire a writer and the writer isn’t

0:30:52.389,0:30:57.429
the best and then you have to go back
and redo that step until you learn how

0:30:57.429,0:31:04.629
to hire a writer very well and you have
to practice so it’s kind of like you end

0:31:04.629,0:31:08.170
up inventing this machine that can
operate on its own

0:31:08.170,0:31:11.830
but it takes some time to make that
invention work well and that’s really

0:31:18.640,0:31:22.360
It’s definitely not just the writer part that
you have to do. You have to have

0:31:22.360,0:31:27.820
writers, editors, and managers.

0:31:27.820,0:31:35.740
You have to grow to be something where all of
these people are trained to operate

0:31:35.740,0:31:39.970
separate from you you have to have a lot
of governing documents to be able to do

0:31:39.970,0:31:45.850
that as well.

Roderick: That’s
something that I definitely have not

0:31:45.850,0:31:51.280
done very well. You know I have some
things that I can like copy paste and

0:31:51.280,0:31:57.340
I’m hiring people but it’s not like a
full-on. You know I just grab this PDF

0:31:57.340,0:32:01.390
and send it to someone which would be a good next step for me

0:32:01.390,0:32:06.370
you know I still have to tweak
everything and you know talk to the

0:32:06.370,0:32:12.700
person and all that stuff

Tiffany: Yeah because
like you know I was in the military for

0:32:12.700,0:32:19.210
nine years and I would say the military
is somewhat somewhat passive from the

0:32:19.210,0:32:23.140
government like you know it operates
somewhat passive from the government

0:32:23.140,0:32:28.810
it’s not like Trump has to tell each
troop what to do right though but in

0:32:28.810,0:32:34.990
order for it to be like that we have to
have documents that we go off of it’s

0:32:34.990,0:32:42.250
like if it was documents for everything
I was in public health so how often do

0:32:42.250,0:32:45.730
people need their immunizations how
often do you have to do an inspection on

0:32:45.730,0:32:50.230
a food facility how often like all that
was documented and met exactly what you

0:32:50.230,0:32:58.270
do when you go is document as well so I
think it definitely comes down to you

0:32:58.270,0:33:04.990
have to make it where you don’t have to
give the directions where they can refer

0:33:04.990,0:33:09.940
to something else and then train them to
do that you know what I mean yep I know

0:33:09.940,0:33:16.420
Roderick: that’s a really good idea

Tiffany: yeah that’s
that’s what we had to do and then when

0:33:16.420,0:33:21.850
we would deploy and a lot of times you
deploy

0:33:21.850,0:33:26.650
maybe you don’t have as much management
or leadership in a location as other

0:33:26.650,0:33:32.260
locations so you’d have to learn how to
go to those documents really good in the

0:33:32.260,0:33:37.750
In the Air Force, the instructions were called “Air force
instructions” so it was like and like they

0:33:37.750,0:33:46.840
always use the acronym AFI and then it’s
like AFI 33 – this – this – that so it

0:33:46.840,0:33:52.840
was a huge thing it’s a huge amount of
documentation that it takes to run a

Are Hobby or Passion Niche Sites More Passive than Lifestyle Niches?

0:33:52.840,0:34:02.020
business if you want it to be passive
but I do see where there’s these sites

0:34:02.020,0:34:07.240
that are in more narrow niches like
passion niches or something like that

0:34:07.240,0:34:13.270
and there’s not as much competition
they’re just kind of like holes or gaps

0:34:13.270,0:34:19.930
in the internet as a result of that then
you can write about something as a high

0:34:19.930,0:34:24.070
demand and little supply and it can
write for a long time it has passive

0:34:24.070,0:34:33.640
components do you see that as well yeah
I mean I see potential for that I don’t

0:34:33.640,0:34:39.580
know of any like examples where I can
say like I definitely seen that and it’s

There is Competition Everywhere there’s Money

0:34:39.580,0:34:48.010
definitely proof of concept I don’t know
I I think there’s competition everywhere

0:34:48.010,0:34:54.190
you know there’s people who are you know
they’re exclusive thing as I can’t

0:34:54.190,0:34:59.950
believe how difficult it is to buy
domain name these days for keywords just

0:34:59.950,0:35:04.660
just last night I have a problem of
drinking and buying domains

0:35:04.660,0:35:10.660
I was buying solar-powered air
conditioners and I thought oh that’s a

0:35:10.660,0:35:15.940
unique idea you know of course the
dot-com was gone I think I changed it up

0:35:15.940,0:35:22.740
i was like solar-powered was taken so I
took solar power air can do no a solar

0:35:22.740,0:35:27.940
anyway some mix of words I ended up
getting a acceptable “dot com” which I don’t

0:35:27.940,0:35:33.220
know why I buy these anymore because
direct-match domains are not that great but I

0:35:33.220,0:35:37.990
still like getting a good one
but you know every idea you think of

0:35:37.990,0:35:43.420
someone else has gone through they have
a algorithm to find these things and

0:35:43.420,0:35:50.230
it’s the same with you know these these
you know underserved markets and small

Don’t Bank on Finding a Niche Where You Won’t Have to Work

0:35:50.230,0:35:55.060
niches someone’s there someone’s doing
something yeah so I I don’t I don’t

0:35:55.060,0:35:59.380
think there’s a lot of potential for
finding like a secret where like oh I

0:35:59.380,0:36:06.160
found this you know thing oh it’s a it’s
a hundred dollar Commission and it’s no

0:36:06.160,0:36:10.770
competition and no one’s gonna discover
that for the next ten years

0:36:10.770,0:36:19.960
yeah so deep but you do have experience
with getting articles to rank for a

0:36:19.960,0:36:27.280
keyword that might drive traffic for a
long period of time do you think that do

0:36:27.280,0:36:31.200
you think that’s becoming less common
because more people are getting into

0:36:31.200,0:36:37.320
having an internet business do you think
that it’s more chances of that being

0:36:37.320,0:36:46.570
possible with certain niches over others
or what do you think like let’s say for

0:36:46.570,0:36:54.490
example I want to get into a lifestyle
niche like parenting would you do you

0:36:54.490,0:37:01.060
think that that’ll be less possible for
me to have articles that are just like

0:37:01.060,0:37:09.810
passively just bringing information
versus going down a niche like pacifiers

0:37:10.380,0:37:14.860
do you think that it’s a certain niche
that is more active voice is more

0:37:14.860,0:37:23.290
passive or no I wouldn’t say it’s niche
dependent I personally don’t have much

Don’t Stake Your Livelihood on SEO Because it’s Out of Your Control

0:37:23.290,0:37:32.440
faith in the ah like I wouldn’t stake my
mortgage on an article that is ranking

0:37:32.440,0:37:41.350
and earning money like I’ve been in many
situations where I have an article there

0:37:41.350,0:37:45.940
ranks well and pulls in thousands of
dollars a month and then a year later

0:37:45.940,0:37:52.070
its it doesn’t rank yeah or
like a most frustrating thing from the

0:37:52.070,0:37:57.200
past year or two I had this great idea
for an article I wanted to do how to

0:37:57.200,0:38:03.830
make money on twitch and I don’t know if
this is exactly related but I just paid

0:38:03.830,0:38:07.910
like five hundred dollars for like a six
thousand word article from a twitch

0:38:07.910,0:38:12.280
expert and then I spent another two
hundred dollars updating it with this

0:38:12.280,0:38:18.890
FAQ section I’ve gone through multiple
updates throughout the years and I don’t

0:38:18.890,0:38:26.240
do any back linking so I guess I could
have done more with that but you know I

0:38:26.240,0:38:29.810
guess my point is is if you have this
article that’s ranking and then it just

0:38:29.810,0:38:35.210
suddenly doesn’t rank there’s not you
know a formula you can do where you can

0:38:35.210,0:38:41.630
bring it back and I think that’s why now
I do more like larger branded sites

0:38:41.630,0:38:50.840
because it’s more diversified yeah so I
mean I’d rather have I mean it’s it’s

0:38:50.840,0:38:57.260
nice and impressive to have that one
article that makes a ton of money but if

0:38:57.260,0:39:02.540
it doesn’t rank it it doesn’t rank for
example I had a couple years ago I had

0:39:02.540,0:39:08.810
this article and it made like 30 grand
in a month from one article from one

0:39:08.810,0:39:13.550
affiliate program and that was that’s
great

0:39:13.550,0:39:18.170
but two years later it’s not there and I
don’t know what to do with it to make it

0:39:18.170,0:39:22.610
rank again you know because I got
crowded out with competition and various

0:39:22.610,0:39:28.370
Google updates so if I was depending on
that for passive income then you know

0:39:28.370,0:39:33.680
I’d be screwed right now the site of
course has multiple other streams of

0:39:33.680,0:39:39.940
income coming in and so it wasn’t
life-changing for me it sucks but you

0:39:39.940,0:39:46.910
know it if I had you know if I had
bought that site if it was like oh you

0:39:46.910,0:39:55.000
know $25,000 a year passive income that
income would dried up by now yeah um

0:39:55.000,0:40:03.230
also I know that SEO like you know I’ve
seen a lot of people

How much Control do you Have with SEO?

0:40:03.230,0:40:07.550
There are lots of articles and things that say it takes 6 months on average to rank

0:40:15.560,0:40:22.430
Many entrepreneurs using SEO want to think that when they
say six months then every article you

0:40:22.430,0:40:27.950
have is gonna rank in six months. How
much control do you have with that?

0:40:27.950,0:40:33.109
Is there one that you can
absolutely say, “yes like eight months

0:40:33.109,0:40:38.390
this one’s gonna hit number one and by
seven months this one’s gonna hit a certain position?”. You know

0:40:38.390,0:40:45.079
like is there an absolute way you can
say that?

Roderick: There’s no way I mean

0:40:45.079,0:40:50.420
you can guess I mean you can say on
average I mean what I tell people is

0:40:50.420,0:40:56.060
like okay zero to three months you’ll
start getting a couple visits a day

0:40:56.060,0:41:00.349
I might have some page two or three
rankings. Maybe not even page two

0:41:00.349,0:41:04.760
you know three to six months maybe you
have some page two maybe a couple page

0:41:04.760,0:41:10.760
one rankings if you go in for ultra low
competition keywords you know I wouldn’t

0:41:10.760,0:41:16.040
expect unless you’re writing every
single day and you’re writing really

0:41:16.040,0:41:21.500
good content or publishing every day you
know whether you outsource it or not you

0:41:21.500,0:41:26.420
know I wouldn’t expect any great
rankings or great income in less than

0:41:26.420,0:41:30.800
six months and if you’re real if you’re
real superstar you I mean you can be

0:41:30.800,0:41:36.140
making a full-time income in less than
twelve. I know multiple people who have

0:41:36.140,0:41:39.710
done that you know ten thousand dollars
a month in less than twelve months so

0:41:39.710,0:41:44.450
it’s possible

Tiffany: What separates those

0:41:44.450,0:41:51.800
superstars?

Roderick: The people who publish more I
mean there are exceptions to the rule

0:41:51.800,0:41:56.480
we’re like okay some people will say oh
I just published you know ten excellent

0:41:56.480,0:42:01.160
articles and they ranked and now I have
a full-time income from this site that

0:42:01.160,0:42:07.250
happens to but most of the time with
most people especially if you’re

0:42:07.250,0:42:10.910
starting from the beginning and you
don’t have experience writing or

0:42:10.910,0:42:15.740
publishing or affiliate marketing the
more the more you publish the more

0:42:15.740,0:42:18.880
practice you get
and you know you’re gonna publish some

0:42:18.880,0:42:22.930
garbage in the beginning but you’re
gonna learn from that and you got to

0:42:22.930,0:42:29.800
kind of learn the ropes and just
something about that six to 12-month

0:42:29.800,0:42:33.580
range I don’t know how many days that
adds up to or how many words that adds

0:42:33.580,0:42:39.640
up to but if you can really hit
publishing hard those six to twelve

0:42:39.640,0:42:44.590
months I think is when you really start
to see better results but you know

0:42:44.590,0:42:51.610
Tiffany: I have watched people who have like only a
few articles and it really takes off and

0:42:51.610,0:42:58.990
I think that if you don’t publish a lot
and you still want to rank a lot you got

0:42:58.990,0:43:05.710
to get a lot of attention and what I see
them do like I think James clear the

0:43:05.710,0:43:15.370
habit guide and Brian Dean from
backlinko a lot of people say oh they

0:43:15.370,0:43:20.260
only have 32 articles and they have all
of this traffic but they have 32

0:43:20.260,0:43:27.550
articles and they have connections with
Neil Patel and they’re on TV and they’re

0:43:27.550,0:43:32.590
like they’re getting a lot of attention
to those 32 articles and so you got to

0:43:32.590,0:43:39.820
be doing some massive, A-level
collaborations in order to be able to

0:43:39.820,0:43:46.240
make that take off like that, that’s what
I’ve noticed.

Roderick: Yeah that’s a good

0:43:46.240,0:43:50.830
clarification or good distinction I
don’t do any outreach I don’t do any

0:43:50.830,0:43:55.210
social media I don’t do any
collaborations you know I sort of work

0:43:55.210,0:44:02.170
in my cave and you know see what happens
so possible like you still made it work

0:44:02.170,0:44:06.400
Tiffany: and you still are able to drive lots of
traffic to your website even though

0:44:06.400,0:44:11.110
you’re in your cave like so that that’s
one thing but then there’s people who

0:44:11.110,0:44:16.630
are completely not in a cave and the way
they make a little bit of content

0:44:16.630,0:44:24.940
stretch a lot is because they’re so
outspoken

SEO Factors To Consider – New Niche Site Case Study

Roderick: you know yeah yeah like okay

0:44:24.940,0:44:30.910
for example I did you know I did the
niche research I did

0:44:30.910,0:44:34.960
keyword research I found low competition
keywords for this new site that I’m

0:44:34.960,0:44:42.010
working on you know I published 20
articles 3000 words each and you know

0:44:42.010,0:44:47.410
it’s a brand new website and it’s been
two weeks a month and none of

0:44:47.410,0:44:50.470
them are ranked they’re all indexed but
none of them are ranking on the top 20

0:44:50.470,0:44:57.880
results so you know it’s a lot
of content and it’s on lower competition

0:44:57.880,0:45:04.000
phrases you would think you know oh good
content ranks and low competition you

0:45:04.000,0:45:09.339
can rank but sometimes it just has to
stew in there and you got to have some

0:45:09.339,0:45:14.020
sort of site structure internal links
and relevant content and all that stuff

0:45:14.020,0:45:19.599
Tiffany: So honestly that is my least favorite
thing about SEO is how little control

0:45:19.599,0:45:27.400
you have and like if I go out and I want
to get a sale today I know I can knock

0:45:27.400,0:45:32.500
on the door you know and those people
will answer and I could say hey I want

0:45:32.500,0:45:36.789
to give you this presentation you know
and possibly drum up sales today with

0:45:36.789,0:45:41.440
SEO it just does not work like that so a
lot of people who come from a background

0:45:41.440,0:45:47.380
where maybe they do offline sales or
something like that and are used to

0:45:47.380,0:45:50.680
having more control it’s really
difficult to get into something like SEO

What Traffic Channels Give you More Control than SEO?

0:45:50.680,0:45:55.539
because it’s not something you have
control of but what would you say if

0:45:55.539,0:46:00.460
there was a person who I mean which I
think this is majority people who what I

0:46:00.460,0:46:06.190
have control of when they get traffic
and sales how would they do that online

0:46:06.190,0:46:10.869
well what do you think is the best way
to drive traffic if you want to know for

0:46:10.869,0:46:16.029
sure you’re gonna get traffic at this
time and possibly sales

0:46:16.029,0:46:19.900
Roderick: I was just when you were talking about
that it’s a it’s a frustrating

0:46:19.900,0:46:24.819
proposition telling people to get into
affiliate marketing and then you’re like

0:46:24.819,0:46:30.339
okay we don’t know how Google works
can’t guarantee that anything would tell

0:46:30.339,0:46:35.410
you we’ll actually rank your articles we
don’t know when you’ll make money we

0:46:35.410,0:46:38.319
can’t tell you how to make money but
trust me it works

0:46:38.319,0:46:46.940
Tiffany: I know and so I want to hear what you

0:46:46.940,0:46:56.200
have to say go ahead keep going

Roderick: I would
say the the best strategy is going to be

0:46:56.200,0:47:04.010
have a couple of big main articles on
your site and then do the rest with low

0:47:04.010,0:47:09.770
competition keywords and a few and do
that for six months and if even if you

0:47:09.770,0:47:12.800
don’t have a keyword tool just use
Google autosuggest

0:47:12.800,0:47:18.320
and answer questions and eventually
you’re gonna you know get some question

0:47:18.320,0:47:21.530
that nobody else answered and exactly
the way you answered it and that’s gonna

0:47:21.530,0:47:26.600
be your first trickle of traffic that’ll
happen three to six months rode three

0:47:26.600,0:47:34.040
six months down the road yeah

Tiffany: I know
when I was doing freelance work and

0:47:34.040,0:47:42.730
working with companies who had investors
and they’ll be starting up online

0:47:42.730,0:47:47.090
They have to be able to tell their
investors when they’re gonna get return

0:47:47.090,0:47:52.990
so they really need to know when they’re
gonna get traffic. SEO was just a

0:47:52.990,0:47:59.770
secondary method of getting traffic
because they needed control

0:47:59.770,0:48:06.050
In most cases, most of the time paid
traffic is the way to go and I think

0:48:06.050,0:48:11.000
it’s really like the only way you can
predict it a little better

0:48:11.000,0:48:17.540
because you know once you pay your bid
on the keyword or once you pick a good

0:48:17.540,0:48:23.630
audience you know the traffic is gonna
come it’s just in just about converting

0:48:23.630,0:48:33.140
the traffic but it just cost so much to
get the insight and so I think a lot of

0:48:33.140,0:48:38.540
people who are starting out with no
social circle and a small budget they

0:48:38.540,0:48:45.950
want the same control that you would
have with a big budget but I don’t think

0:48:45.950,0:48:51.350
you get that same control without having
a bigger budget where you can pay for a

0:48:51.350,0:48:55.320
more predictable method of traffic. Do
you agree?

Site Age and SEO Predictability

0:48:55.320,0:49:01.680
Roderick: I agree I mean if you have an
established site and you’re familiar

0:49:01.680,0:49:07.290
with your niche and you know how to do
keyword research you know then you can

0:49:07.290,0:49:14.670
have a bit more predictability

0:49:14.670,0:49:19.590
I know that when page one is full of websites which are not
relevant and they don’t contain the

0:49:19.590,0:49:26.160
exact keyword so I’m confident that if I
write this article and it’s 1500 words

0:49:26.160,0:49:30.930
long and I do some internal linking back
to it that within a week I can rank on

0:49:30.930,0:49:36.150
page one or then every week I can rank
on page two and then maybe I’ll write

0:49:36.150,0:49:40.560
some supplemental articles and boost it
to page one

Tiffany: okay so onemorecupof-coffee

0:49:40.560,0:49:45.300
is one of your most established sites?

0:49:52.350,0:49:57.690
Roderick: Yes.

0:49:57.690,0:50:03.120
Tiffany: Since it has
more authority do you feel pretty

0:50:03.120,0:50:08.010
confident about your predictions with
that site yeah but even then just low

0:50:08.010,0:50:12.660
competition stuff I mean with higher
competition keywords knows you can’t

0:50:12.660,0:50:18.000
predict it yeah I mean maybe if I was
doing more back linking stuff things

0:50:18.000,0:50:22.230
could perform better but I don’t know it
kind of seems random sometimes sometimes

0:50:22.230,0:50:27.060
I’ll just shoot to number one well I
mean I’ve ranked spot number one within

0:50:27.060,0:50:33.450
an hour before mm-hmm but other times
I’ve written a I just published a three

0:50:33.450,0:50:36.600
thousand word article on some product
review which is relatively low

0:50:36.600,0:50:42.900
competition and I’m stuck on number 25
so who knows what’s going on there

0:50:42.900,0:50:50.130
Tiffany: You’ve done paid ads
before on the same site, right?

Roderick: yeah

Tiffany: So, when you

0:50:50.130,0:50:55.920
did paid ads like can compare how
quickly you were able to drive traffic

0:50:55.920,0:51:05.490
with that?

Roderick:
I mean that’s instant

0:51:05.500,0:51:13.450
so the issue is the ROI I mean yeah and
2019 I did a whole string of paid ads

0:51:13.450,0:51:19.480
and I lost about six grand made about 20
bucks so clearly I’m not a paid ads

0:51:19.480,0:51:24.819
expert at something I need to work on
but it’s something I want to work on

0:51:24.819,0:51:28.750
because it’s a good backup you know yeah
algorithm update you’re gonna get caught

0:51:28.750,0:51:33.940
in or what competition is gonna start
what’s really frustrating the most

0:51:33.940,0:51:40.650
frustrating thing for me I think with
SEO is when you’re ranking and then

0:51:40.650,0:51:44.980
someone gets your same keyword whether
they’re copying it from your site or

0:51:44.980,0:51:48.670
just using your same keyword tools and
then they do it better than you and

0:51:48.670,0:51:56.049
you’re like they beat me but they
deserve it so then you have to decide do

0:51:56.049,0:52:05.309
I want to invest time and trying to
regain that position

0:52:05.309,0:52:11.650
because you can optimize and try to
get the ranking back but yeah sometimes

An Ideal Traffic Model — The Digital Marketing Trifecta

0:52:18.970,0:52:24.569
Tiffany: I think it’s Neil Patel I might have
said it but he talks about the digital

0:52:24.569,0:52:30.549
digital media trifecta thing that’s what
he called it have and basically you have

0:52:30.549,0:52:35.710
your owned media where you are you have
your website and then you’re driving

0:52:35.710,0:52:41.170
traffic with like SEO or something like
that social media organic stuff and then

0:52:41.170,0:52:46.690
you have the earned media where you’re
getting social shares and stuff based

0:52:46.690,0:52:51.250
off of your reputation and then you have
the paid media where you’re paying for

0:52:51.250,0:52:57.369
traffic and he basically what I saw I
think it was him they was saying it but

0:52:57.369,0:53:02.380
is that the combination of how all those
three things really makes you a reliable

0:53:02.380,0:53:08.529
stream of traffic and more reliable
sales do you agree with it yeah I mean

0:53:08.529,0:53:17.620
Roderick: that sounds nice I mean I’m in a bit of
a different position from new

0:53:17.620,0:53:22.450
Patel and that I’m not selling my own
products so ya know if paid traffic

0:53:22.450,0:53:30.100
works not that it works differently but
I know that the the ROI is different for

0:53:30.100,0:53:34.600
affiliates versus selling your own
product

0:53:34.600,0:53:40.240
because he’s selling SEO services and
they’re not cheap so you know he can pay

0:53:40.240,0:53:45.520
two bucks a click and if he makes one
sale and nets and a thousand two

0:53:45.520,0:53:53.230
thousand bucks whatever it’s easier to
get ROI on that versus you know if I’m

0:53:53.230,0:53:58.570
promoting a product and the sale
price is you know 50 bucks and I make em

0:53:58.570,0:54:04.720
ten percent that’s five dollars that I’m
making off of the sale what price it

0:54:04.720,0:54:10.620
clicks and how many clicks do I need to
actually convert and all that stuff so

0:54:10.620,0:54:15.580
yeah paid ads have not worked out for me
so far but I mean it would be nice and

0:54:15.580,0:54:21.310
then you know social media – I’ve got a
lot of excuses here but you know social

0:54:21.310,0:54:25.600
media is just not my personality and
I’ve tried it before Twitter I don’t

0:54:25.600,0:54:29.050
know how many times I can say okay guys
published an article on low competition

0:54:29.050,0:54:36.940
keywords likes to come out with these
new strategies new you know sky is

0:54:36.940,0:54:41.860
falling Google algorithm update here’s
how to beat it all this does as I don’t

0:54:41.860,0:54:46.240
know my day-to-day doesn’t change that
much so I don’t know if I have that much

0:54:46.240,0:54:53.820
to say each day to be able to promote
but I think you would I think you would

Tiffany’s Advice to Roderick

0:54:53.820,0:55:00.850
yeah I think you may just need somebody
to work with you but I definitely think

0:55:00.850,0:55:08.140
you would I think that um you might be
surprised at what things that you you do

0:55:08.140,0:55:12.010
that are actually interesting to people
and that they would like to learn more

0:55:12.010,0:55:19.540
about and it just is experimental but
once you get it I think I think you

0:55:19.540,0:55:27.580
definitely you could do it was paid ads
I think that’s why a lot of people go

0:55:27.580,0:55:30.800
the high-ticket route with high ticket
products

0:55:30.800,0:55:35.450
because they’re trying to make that ROI
and trying to make sure they get their

0:55:35.450,0:55:43.400
money back I think that if like the
alternative to not have a higher ticket

0:55:43.400,0:55:48.170
prices would be either recurring revenue
and have a high lifetime customer value

0:55:48.170,0:55:57.530
or or having a lot of products like um
you look at sites like you do me that

0:55:57.530,0:56:04.280
does aggressive paid ads and they’re
selling courses for like $19 or

0:56:04.280,0:56:08.810
something like that but there’s there
still I mean they’ve gotta be making

0:56:08.810,0:56:11.480
money otherwise they will and keep doing
it right

Roderick and Businesses without Profit

0:56:11.480,0:56:16.130
Roderick: all these days I mean ubers been losing
money for how many years and you know

0:56:16.130,0:56:20.090
there’s doing ads and they’re recruiting
and you know when you get to higher

0:56:20.090,0:56:25.540
level business sometimes companies you
know they lose money on the front end so

0:56:25.540,0:56:30.530
um you might be you know they might not
be making money they’re trying to you

0:56:30.530,0:56:33.470
know build their brand for a couple
years and see what happens I I don’t

0:56:33.470,0:56:38.480
understand higher level business
strategy stuff so I’m very basic like

0:56:38.480,0:56:48.980
you know that’s good you want short term
alright well I think that

0:56:48.980,0:56:54.920
Tiffany: I agree with you that they do a lot for
brand awareness I agree with that and

0:56:54.920,0:57:00.800
you see like I’ve watched a lot of
documentaries on Jeff Bezos or Amazon

0:57:00.800,0:57:07.460
and he just kept reinvesting
investing aggressively for years and

0:57:07.460,0:57:12.970
it’s because he really wanted a large
percentage of the market share so

0:57:12.970,0:57:19.250
instead of taking profit and want to buy
him a nice car and his wife a new purse

0:57:19.250,0:57:25.010
and stuff he was being reinvested and
aggressively probably keeping his own

0:57:25.010,0:57:31.970
salary at a normal everyday person’s
rate and just reinvested in the business

0:57:31.970,0:57:44.540
Roderick: so I think I I think that um I agree
with you in order to get there at the

0:57:44.540,0:57:48.170
in order to grow like high-level
business you do have to do a lot with

0:57:48.170,0:57:54.940
brand awareness getting attention and
scaling that attention into dollars but

0:57:54.940,0:58:07.130
yeah so have you done any paid ads for
your

Tiffany: yeah I have and I experimented with

0:58:07.130,0:58:15.950
I did a lot of experimentation and I
like paid ads and that was one

0:58:15.950,0:58:19.400
interesting thing about the John Crestani interview talking him because

0:58:19.400,0:58:25.400
that’s been his main strategy but one
thing is really tough about paid ads is

0:58:25.400,0:58:30.980
especially when you’re using your own
money is when you’re starting out being

0:58:30.980,0:58:35.510
as aggressive as you need to in order to
learn and being okay with losing the

0:58:35.510,0:58:43.280
money at the beginning like that that
can be hard to do like because you you

0:58:43.280,0:58:50.200
you the expectation has to be at you or
you will earn from the first you know

0:58:50.200,0:59:00.440
campaigns and the first campaigns are
just to learn what’s working and you

0:59:00.440,0:59:05.990
have to get get it where you’re getting
traffic first and then take that and

0:59:05.990,0:59:11.920
optimize it so once your your ads are
really driving traffic then you have to

0:59:11.920,0:59:18.890
go back to the negative keyword list and
go to your landing pages and see what

0:59:18.890,0:59:23.230
you could change to make them convert
better the optimization is key in

0:59:23.230,0:59:32.380
payments you know yeah so but the
aggression he really capitalized when

0:59:32.380,0:59:36.380
during that interview he really
capitalized or how aggressive you have

0:59:36.380,0:59:42.740
to be starting out and I think most
people who are thinking about paid ads

0:59:42.740,0:59:48.770
aren’t thinking about stomaching the upfront loss long enough that you

0:59:48.770,0:59:53.750
can really recoup it. It can feel like gambling alot of money. If you

0:59:53.750,0:59:58.630
lose $300 on ads you’re like oh what
did I just do

0:59:58.630,1:00:02.690
Roderick: even in the scheme of things if you’re
trying to make $10,000 a month

1:00:02.690,1:00:09.920
I mean spending $300 on education is not
that bad yeah it’s true yeah I agree I

1:00:09.920,1:00:16.010
think that’s just how business goes you
have to invest first before you make

1:00:16.010,1:00:22.880
something that’s for like SEO for
beginners because it hurts like yeah you

1:00:22.880,1:00:27.380
know you can waste an hour writing an
article and then even if it goes right

1:00:27.380,1:00:32.510
into the trash you know it’s just time
what were you gonna do watch TV you know

1:00:32.510,1:00:38.570
go play basketball like there you don’t
it’s not as much as saying like I used

1:00:38.570,1:00:44.420
to have a hundred bucks and now I don’t
Tiffany: Yeah and paid ads does feel like

1:00:44.420,1:00:50.300
you’re gambling for a little bit yeah
you can feel like you’re gambling until

1:00:50.300,1:00:55.250
you really build that skill that you
kind of know it works you know what a

1:00:55.250,1:01:01.130
landing page should look like you um you
know what keywords would convert well

1:01:01.130,1:01:07.540
like once you or if you’re doing it
Facebook you you have to really know

1:01:07.540,1:01:12.470
market research or audiences and be
really good at predicting what type of

1:01:12.470,1:01:18.080
offers will work well for what audiences
but yeah I definitely haven’t gone to

1:01:18.080,1:01:25.280
that stage yet

Roderick: I’m still at the losing
money stage I think

Tiffany: I’m surprised

1:01:25.280,1:01:30.980
because I’m sure you’ve learned a lot
from working with the like SEO and

1:01:30.980,1:01:37.910
audiences with SEO so why do you think
that that doesn’t translate I don’t know

1:01:37.910,1:01:43.070
a lot of money you know I’m getting
clicks I’ve had campaigns where I was

1:01:43.070,1:01:46.790
down to five cents a click and I was
getting 100 clicks a day and I just

1:01:46.790,1:01:55.790
couldn’t get it to convert so mmm yeah I
don’t know yeah I’ve clearly got some

1:01:55.790,1:02:00.560
kind of problem I need to work through
with my paid ads the last session hurt a

1:02:00.560,1:02:05.030
little bit I said I lost about 6 grand
and so I need to recover from that a bit

1:02:05.030,1:02:11.270
until I get my confidence back up yeah

Tiffany: Well, I really really appreciate

1:02:11.270,1:02:16.070
you doing this interview with me and
answered all these questions I hope that

1:02:16.070,1:02:22.280
those of you who watch the interview and
we’re interested in passive income or

1:02:22.280,1:02:27.740
passive income affiliate marketing or
any of the concepts that we talked about

1:02:27.740,1:02:35.740
really got a lot of things to think
about. When you decide to get into it I

1:02:35.740,1:02:40.790
definitely think that there are passive
compressive income components to

1:02:40.790,1:02:45.170
affiliate marketing and so I hope that
you don’t take that away from our

1:02:45.170,1:02:53.300
conversation that that there is not the
possibility but I think that you have to

1:02:53.300,1:03:00.140
expect active income especially at the
startup phase so that’s my take on it

1:03:00.140,1:03:06.980
If you enjoyed this video, please
leave a thumbs up and also subscribe to

1:03:06.980,1:03:10.670
the channel if you’re interested in
hearing more about product and service

1:03:10.670,1:03:14.690
reviews as well as buyers guides and
growth strategies to help you grow a

1:03:14.690,1:03:19.160
business from idea to full time income
and from full-time income to enterprise

1:03:19.160,1:03:24.950
and I forgot to ask you what projects
are you working on now and where can

1:03:24.950,1:03:33.590
people find you if they want to know
more and learn more from you

Roderick: Well onemorecupof-coffee.com

1:03:43.580,1:03:47.960
I have a couple guides there
and a lot on affiliate programs and

1:03:47.960,1:03:55.609
what not that’s that’s my main hub

Tiffany: I was talking to my mom

1:03:55.609,1:04:02.960
and it’s so funny. I was in Ohio and
my mom and I were talking about affiliate marketing. They run

1:04:02.960,1:04:07.790
a real estate investing company so we
were talking about how affiliate

1:04:07.790,1:04:12.830
marketing could be relevant for them as
real estate investors

1:04:12.830,1:04:19.030
I was telling her how you can actually partner with
companies that are relevant to your

1:04:19.030,1:04:23.540
customers and you can make additional
income for referring people to them and

1:04:23.540,1:04:28.030
she’s like I wanna know
about this so I looked up real estate

1:04:28.030,1:04:32.770
affiliate programs and guess who pops up? Roderick Brenes.

1:04:33.610,1:04:38.090
so I think you got a lot of good stuff
there

1:04:38.090,1:04:45.680
I’ve also seen really creative ideas. I

1:04:45.680,1:04:52.520
think you had like stripper affiliate
programs. Hahaha.

1:04:52.520,1:04:55.340
Roderick: I mean there’s affiliate programs for everything. I just published
an article about edible paint at Wealthy Affiliate.

1:05:21.410,1:05:28.760
Tiffany: yeah well I definitely think you shouldn’t
underestimate how good the stuff on your website is and

1:05:28.760,1:05:35.000
how many people can be helped with it
because some of the ideas you’ve come up

1:05:35.000,1:05:39.140
with I ended up doing keyword research
on something I’m trying to learn about

1:05:39.140,1:05:45.860
and then end up popping up on your site
all the time so definitely if you’re

1:05:45.860,1:05:49.460
interested in learning more about
affiliate marketing or different

1:05:49.460,1:05:52.520
creative ways you can use affiliate
marketing if you’re a small business

1:05:52.520,1:05:58.040
owner and maybe you have you want to
know how can you find affiliate programs

1:05:58.040,1:06:02.540
that are relevant for you, check out Roderick’s website

1:06:02.540,1:06:07.040
He has really cool articles that can help you
see how you can apply it to your

1:06:07.040,1:06:11.900
business type and is applicable for
service based businesses, it’s applicable

1:06:11.900,1:06:15.620
for product based businesses. It’s so
much you can do with affiliate marketing

1:06:24.890,1:06:30.560
I hope you this interview. Like I said, if you did, please

1:06:30.560,1:06:34.970
like below and also subscribe to the
channel click the boat icon for

1:06:34.970,1:06:38.480
notifications and I really hope to see
you in the back

1:06:38.480,1:06:44.290
video have a great day bye thanks for
having me on bye

Conclusion

I hope you enjoyed learning about Roderick’s online business journey. He has a wealth of experience and knowledge since he’s been in the industry for so long. If you have questions about anything we discussed, please leave a comment below.

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